First mover advantage


#1

Feels like a huge first mover advantage right now. First player can deploy the 4 biggest units and just attack. What do you think about player one starts with 3 units instead? Assuming nobody attacks: P1 ->3units, P2->4units, P1->5units, P2->6units…


#2

From another thread:

Generally, I agree, but the unit amount seems very precarious to touch. Maybe giving P2 the chance to use a unit’s action (e.g. giving one of your Brutes a shield) could work, too. But we’ll have to check if your strategy can be countered. I think I’ve figured out a good way to defend against it, but that would require Motivator’s passive to work as advertised (or to stack with Intimidate).


#3

Okay so with some testing of a strategy that Harti and I were looking into, and then talking a bit with Alvendor as well, P1 advantage is super strong with that one strategy, and without it, it’s strong still because you have priority: even if P2 counters your opening setup, P1 plays each turn with 8/12/16 total actions vs P2 with 4/8/12 and P2 plays each turn catching up on actions.


#4

we’re considering doing a P2 gets 5 spawns to see how it plays out.


#5

Despite 5 spawns they would still only get four actions, I’m guessing that might not do the trick quite yet.


#6

I’m familiar with the extra AP for P2 idea from our Outwitters days. Trying something new here, and I do think an extra spawn for P2 will help for the following reasons:

  1. P1 rushes will not be against an equal force, harder to steamroll with that AP advantage.
  2. If you look at unit count over time, P1 is the first to kill and gain an advantage. They’re also the first to have freshly spawned reinforcements come online and enter the fray. Giving P2 a slight unit advantage on setup helps offset those advantages.
  3. An extra spawn is a 1AP value, plus 1 turn headstart (compared to spawning a unit conventionally).

#7

Didn’t mean to count my chickens before they hatched, I’m positive that your long-time experience with the game mechanics (and knowledge of how the system changes if you change a single number) enable you to find more elegant solutions,

Was just putting a disclaimer because - despite me not losing any units on the first turn in various attempts to defend against @Memories using the aggressive Brute tactics - I usually lack the actions to fight back. Brutes alone require at least two actions to get rid of, and the same goes for Defender units. Not to forget about the Motivator in their backline that you would like to get rid of so they can’t just Shout-beatdown you using the remaining Brute.
You can only destroy so many enemy units and there are currently no feasible ways to punish a player for pushing forward like that. It’s bad enough that - in order to keep all your units on the field - you have to play from a more defensive position and thus have less zone control as P2.


#8

Yeah its a bit of a loop, that relationship. Units are useless without AP, AP is useless if you don’t have active units. You currently have 4 AP for turn 2, and four men to use it all if you preserve them. So additional AP could really only go into spawning, and you’d have to wait a turn to use those reinforcements. That extra active troop might feel more valuable than he seems.


#9

Now that I thought about it more it would probably be good to stick with Alvendor’s original idea of having P1 get only 3 spawns. Even though it seems radical, this way, P2 gets an action for all of their units on their first turn, while P1 is kind of limited and forced to use their fourth action to spawn a unit. This makes it less of a catch-up game. Using three units only, I don’t currently see a very effective way of rushing (2 Brutes + Defender makes it likely that you lose your 8 HP Brute on their turn; 1 Brute + 2 Defenders seems too weak of a push to me).


#10

This would also help with other rushes that get 6/8 taps on P1’s second turn.


#11

We’ve got some changes coming when Alex is back in the office. Should squash a few of these issues.